[ABE-L] Fwd: Fwd: ASA Connect Digest for Thursday June 18, 2020

Sáb Jun 20 18:42:26 -03 2020

---------- Forwarded message ---------
De: José Carvalho <josef.carvalho em gmail.com>
Date: sáb., 20 de jun. de 2020 às 18:16
Subject: Re: [ABE-L] Fwd: ASA Connect Digest for Thursday June 18, 2020
To: Doris Fontes <dsfontes em gmail.com>
Cc: abe-Lista <abe-l em ime.usp.br>

Dóris, boa noite.

Faz um tempinho que vi essa onda crescer pela lista da ASA. Estava quieto.
Mas seu email me impeliu a dar um palpite.

Eu acho a ideia absurda. Se normearmos o que Fisher
criou/inventou/estabeleceu para a estatística. Não há um dia em que um
profissional da estatística deixe de usar alguma coisa do Fisher.
Falamos de eugenia... chegado à genética. A genética quantitativa deve
muito ao Fisher. A agricultura deve muito a ele. Claro, agora, com biologia
molecular, isso vai ficando diferente. Mesmo assim, vejo, como exemplo, na
indústria de celulose, como se faz de melhoria, com genética quantitativa,
estilo "antigo". Muito disso vem do Fisher.

E por falar em eugenia, há muito que praticamos eugenia em animais. Os
cavalos de hoje, do orte que são, nada parecem com o originais, depois de
muito mudados pelo homem. Vacas produtoras de leite também foram muito
melhoradas geneticamente por cruzamentos. A lista é infinda... Isso começou
muito antes de Fisher e de modelos de genética quantitativa. O sucesso
dessa prática pode subir à cabeça de muita gente e, talvez, aplicar-se isso
a humanos. Afinal, somos animais, iguais a qualquer mamífero, não é?
Esbarramos aqui em questões éticas, que não aplicamos in toto a animais.

Ainda sobre eugenia - existem algumas "doenças" sabidamente causadas por um
ou outro gene. E já se sabe como mudar  a expressão desse gene. Vamos
deixar de fazê-lo, para não alterar a genética de um neném? Isso não é uma
forma de eugenia?

Fisher escreveu sobre eugenia em 1920. Caramba!!!!

Já conversei sobre isso, seriamente, com Oscar Kempthorne, nos '70 e '80.
Lembro-me que ele me disse: um homem tem muitas dimensões. Talvez uma das
muitas de Fisher seja criticável - hoje. E daí? Vamos jogar fora o que ele
fez? Pior: vamos descrendeciar seu nome, desfilia-lo de sua produção? É um
crime!

Acho que temos de por um freio nessa vaga de "politicamente correto".

Abraços,

Zé Carvalho

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 3:10 PM Doris Fontes <dsfontes em gmail.com> wrote:

> Vocês estão acompanhando essa discussão sobre o Fisher? Parece que a ASA
> resolveu mudar o nome do Fisher Award. Três nomes importantes da
> estatística (Fisher, Pearson e Galton) no meio dessas discussões sobre
> movimentos eugenistas. Triste realidade.
>
>
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> 2. Re: COPSS Fisher Award
> <https://community.amstat.org/communities/community-home/digestviewer/viewthread?MessageKey=93b52c50-139e-4d9f-be5c-a1dffefe7fa6&CommunityKey=6b2d607a-e31f-4f19-8357-020a8631b999&tab=digestviewer#bm93b52c50-139e-4d9f-be5c-a1dffefe7fa6>
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> [image: Roger Hoerl]
> <https://community.amstat.org/network/members/profile?UserKey=3e823bf0-5765-453b-9402-dacc1f6570cc>
> Jun 18, 2020 9:43 AM
> Roger Hoerl
> <https://community.amstat.org/network/members/profile?UserKey=3e823bf0-5765-453b-9402-dacc1f6570cc>
>
> I would like to offer another perspective on this decision, and make a
> request of the ASA leadership. First of all, while I deplore the concept of
> eugenics, I had misgivings about this decision. My reasoning was expressed
> by a previous commenter; we are essentially judging someone born in the 19
> th century by 21st century ethical standards. This is a tough bar for
> anyone to pass! However, a decision has now been made, and I encourage my
> fellow ASA members to support it, as I do, in the interests of "moving
> forward to form a more just, equitable, diverse, and inclusive society," in
> the words of Ron Wasserstein.
>
> While supporting this decision, it should be obvious to all of us that
> there will be more decisions of a similar nature to be made in the future.
> As I look around the country, and even the world, there are numerous
> statues and monuments being torn down, as well as buildings and awards
> being renamed. As an aside, it is a bit shocking that it took this long to
> tear down confederate monuments, but that is not my point today. Rather, my
> point is that from my perspective, many of these decisions have been made
> as "one-offs," in an isolated manner, often driven by emotion or the latest
> news headlines.
>
> As a professional society that prides itself on objectivity, I would think
> that we, the ASA, should be guided in such decisions by sound ethical
> principles, which could be documented, debated, and modified over time. In
> fact, we do have ethical guidelines for statistical practice, but I don't
> think they answer the question of ex post facto guilt. For example, article
> 11, paragraph 2 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human_Rights> provides
> that "no person be held guilty of any criminal law that did not exist at
> the time of offence, nor suffer any penalty heavier than what existed at
> the time of offence." Of course, we are not talking about criminal law
> here, but I think the ex post facto principle is still relevant.
>
> In short, while supporting the current decision on renaming the R.A.
> Fisher Award, I am calling on ASA leadership to consider documentation of
> principles to be used to guide future decisions on renaming of awards,
> lectures, buildings, or statistics departments. These should be shared with
> the membership for input and debate, of course, and modified over time as
> necessary. I would be happy to help in any way that I could.
>
> Sincerely, Roger
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Roger W. Hoerl
> Manager, Applied Statistics Lab
> GE Global Research
> ------------------------------
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> -------------------------------------------
> Original Message:
> Sent: 06-15-2020 08:03
> From: Ronald Wasserstein
> Subject: COPSS Fisher Award
>
> Dear Colleagues,
> The leadership of the ASA has recommended to the awarding organization –
> COPSS – that the R.A. Fisher Award and Lectureship be retired and that this
> year's award be retitled. There is no principle of greater value than the
> principle of strengthening the statistical community by moving forward to
> form a more just, equitable, diverse, and inclusive society. We are
> committed to future diversity and inclusion across the generations in the
> statistics profession.
>
> We celebrate and commend the outstanding accomplishments of past award
> recipients and especially this year's recipient, Kathryn Roeder. She richly
> deserves to be and will be appropriately honored at JSM, and we look
> forward to her lecture.
>
> Ron
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Ron Wasserstein
> Executive Director
> The American Statistical Association
> Promoting the Practice and Profession of Statistics
> 732 N. Washington St.
> Alexandria, VA 22314
> 703-684-1221 x1860
> ------------------------------
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> 3. Re: COPSS Fisher Award
> <https://community.amstat.org/communities/community-home/digestviewer/viewthread?MessageKey=e746010a-f16a-4a06-9beb-415465c0c08a&CommunityKey=6b2d607a-e31f-4f19-8357-020a8631b999&tab=digestviewer#bme746010a-f16a-4a06-9beb-415465c0c08a>
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> [image: J. Rao]
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> Jun 18, 2020 9:50 AM
> J. Rao
> <https://community.amstat.org/network/members/profile?UserKey=111c0aec-a37b-4d88-9345-ce1969d58ff6>
> C. R. Rao was Fisher's Ph. D. student. He will turn 100 this September. It
> is a good idea to ask him about Fisher.
>
> ------------------------------
> J. Rao
> Carleton University
> ------------------------------
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> -------------------------------------------
> Original Message:
> Sent: 06-17-2020 23:12
> From: Kenneth Burnham
> Subject: COPSS Fisher Award
>
> Before such a change ask C.R. Rao and D.R. Cox about Fisher and racism.
> They should have direct knowledge on the matter.
>
> ------------------------------
> Kenneth Burnham
> Colorado State University
>
>
>
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